- Topics Mentioned
- Certification(s):
- Microsoft Certifications
I watched the Microsoft webinar on the new Server 2008 (formerly Longhorn) certifications last week and came away feeling a little underwhelmed. In case you didn’t know already the MCSE is “dead” for Server 2008 and they are moving on to a “job based” approach to their certifications. Read on for more details.
Windows Server 2008 MCTS Certifications
To begin with, there will be several Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist (MCTS) exams that you can take to certify specific skills on the Server 2008 platform. These are roughly equivalent to becoming a MCP in Windows 2000/2003. You will earn MCTS certification for each different exam that you pass. Here are the initial MCTS exams that will be released:
- 70-640 MCTS: Configuring Windows Server 2008 Active Directory
- 70-642 MCTS: Configuring Windows Server 2008 Network Infrastructure
- 70-643 MCTS: Configuring Windows Server 2008 Application Platforms
70-640 and 70-642 are no surprise but 70-643 is interesting. It will cover Internet Information Services (IIS 7) and Microsoft Virtual Server among other things. Pretty cool. These exams are scheduled to be available 30 days after Server 2008 goes RTM.
Windows Server 2008 MCITP Certifications
There are two different Server 2008 tracks, the Server Administrator and the Enterprise Server Administrator. Both of these are MCITP level certifications, requiring multiple exams. These are the highest level of certification (outside of the MCA program) that you can attain. Here are the requirements for each.
Windows Server 2008 Administrator:
- 70-640 Active Directory
- 70-642 Network Infrastructure
- 70-646 Windows 2008 Server Administrator Exam
***Only 3 exams required; the MCTS exams 70-640 and 70-642 and the main MCITP exam for this track, 70-646
Windows Server 2008 Enterprise Administrator:
- 70-640 Active Directory
- 70-642 Network Infrastructure
- 70-643 Applications Platform
- 70-620 OR 70-624 Windows Vista Client
- 70-647 Windows Server 2008 Enterprise Administrator Exam
***5 exams required; the MCTS exams 70-640, 70-642, 70-643, 70-620 (or 70-624) and the main MCITP exam for this track, 70-647
The two MCITP exams are schedlued to be available 60 days after Server 2008 goes RTM.
Do I lose my MCSE/MCSA?
No. You get to keep your MCSE or any credential earned under the Windows 2000/2003 certification track. You essentially have a “MCSE in Windows 2003″ (for example).
However, you do not become a “MCSE in Windows 2008″, because the MCSE no longer exists. You will have to upgrade to one of the MCITP certifications referenced above. Your Windows 2000/2003 certifications will not expire and will continue to be valuable as long as Windows 2000/2003 is used on company networks.
If you are currently working on your MCSE/MCSA keep working on it … it is still valuable and will provide you with excellent base knowledge that will also apply to Windows 2008.
Can you upgrade your MCSE/MCSA to Windows Server 2008 Certifications?
Yes, there is an upgrade path but only for WINDOWS 2003 MCSEs and MCSAs. If you are certified in Windows 2000, you must upgrade to Windows 2003 first or just take the Windows 2008 exams individually. Here are the upgrade details:
Windows 2003 MCSE – Pass the 70-649 (upgrade) exam and you do not have to take 70-640, 70-642, 70-643. You DO have to take the MCITP: Enterprise Server Administrator exam and the Vista client exam.
Windows 2003 MCSA – Pass the 70-648 (upgrade) exam and you do not have to take 70-640, 70-642. You DO have to take the MCITP: Server Administrator exam.
My Thoughts on the Windows 2008 Certifications
Like I said in the opening, I came away a little underwhelmed. It just seems like the main MCITP certifications do not have enough substance. I am all for simplicity (only 2 or 3 different professional tracks) but I would like to see a few more exams attached to the higher level certs to make them a little tougher to attain.
I also think it will be a bit clunky to say (or put on a resume), “I am a MCITIP: Enterprise Administrator, MCTS: ISA Server, MCTS: Exchange Server”, etc. There should be one certification (probably the Enterprise Administator certification) that requires Exchange Server, ISA Server and perhaps SQL Server knowledge, in addition to all of the core Windows Server 2008 requirements. This would be of value to companies and IT professionals alike.
What do you think?
Looking for more information on Windows Server 2008 Certifications? Check out Trika’s Microsoft site; it is loaded with Microsoft certification information and she is very helpful.
I think it is time to move-on without Microsoft Certifications. I started with NT, than to 2000 last but not least 2003, now I am 2003 MCSE Security and Messaging (Exchange) these will be my last Microsoft Certifications; I am getting sick and tired of mouse and cat game with Microsoft’s Certification Scams… There are more companies using Exchange 5.5 than Exchange 2003. Some small to medium size business are not even on AD yet. I think, Microsoft lost me as a continuing (upgrading) sucker this time around. It was a nice ride Microsoft, thanks for the memories… Cisco Certification here I come…
I agree with E Cetiner,
sadly as an Employer, microsoft qualifications are considered useless and pretty much a joke, due to many reasons.. with the new certification routes, microsoft qualified individuals will be primarily rejected in favour of comptia, cisco and IT experienced individuals.
preference will be given to the experience IT individuals with no qualifications but with proven IT knowledge. Having seen the content of the microsoft exams, it is obvious they are of no use as even MCTs are advising students to simply braindump them, as they are ridiculous questions with microsoft answers only being accepted.
my advice to those on the cert track would be go via any other route, but not microsoft as you will not be emplyed and actively discriminated against.
Wau…. i disagree with you…
however there is one thing you all must be aware of, with the new MCTS and MCITP.
They are to be renewed every 2′nd year, to be able to keep your certification status.
I do agree with E Cetiner and dr Smith but at the same time I believe that Microsoft exmas are not useless. However, it is unfair on Bill Gates part that by the time you work on an OS and learn it well, Microsoft is ready with another OS that is similar to the previous one with some security and display difference.
That is really an inconvenience on the students part. Cisco certifications are better and perfect in this matter.
Cheers.
Hi Guys
I 100% agree to all, this is easy way for Microsoft to make money.Windows 2003 was my last certification from Microsoft. Now i am moving towards CCIE.
Bye Bye Microsoft.
Thank goodness I did not pursue the MCSE cert after all…it would be pretty much worthless by 2009 and a rather poor investment for anyone to continue on the MCSE track. I am an MCSA 2003 but I always thought it would only be fair to have one exam for MCSA and another for MCSE. An exam of 65 questions with 15 being simulations is what I would recommend but instead the MCSE has IT professionals taking 7 exams and at least 4 of them will overlap one another and the questions do not really pertain to the material in the books.
That led thousands to braindumps and that eventually devalued the cert.
Personally, I think its all a bunch of BS and these useless exams only profit an already billion dollar company.
Life is all about choices guys, making tough choices !
This will separate the loyal Microsoft followers from desserters…again comes back to choice ie., either do you upgrade or you don’t verrrry simple.
I am jumping off the microsoft bandwagon and jumping onto unix and cisco. Microsoft is a waste of time.
I think as time goes on more and more people are attaining Microsoft certifications because it’s becoming easier to cram study for and predict what’s on the exam.
Microsoft in this case is dumbing down the certification requirements and as a result I think we’ll see an already saturated market start to show serious signs of the certification value dripping away.
Hi there all,
I tend to agree, microsoft cerifications is a load of hog wash. Go the CCIE and\or linux\unix route and u won’t be dissapointed. A whole new world awaits….
Thanks for all the comments. I am a little surprised to hear all of the negativity directed towards the Microsoft certification program. I agree, that it has problems but I also feel like it has significant value to employers (we still value the MCSE) and employees. Many jobs require the MCSE certification. Several things that I wanted to point out:
1. If you are currently a MCP, MCSA, MCSE, etc. in Windows 2000/2003 your certification will NOT expire. You will always hold this certification. You don’t have to pursue the new MCITP certs and your MCSE will still be recognized and valuable as long as Windows 2000/2003 is used by companies. You can take the new MCITP certs when (or if) you want.
2. Most vendor’s certification programs (Cisco included) have re-certification requirements. I think this is a good thing. I realize that it is time consuming and expensive to attain certifications but this is part of working in IT…things change pretty quickly. Honestly, I don’t want somebody working on my network that last certified in NT 4.0 and/or last learned about Cisco routers over 5 years ago.
Change is good. Innovation is good. Windows 2008 is good. That doesn’t mean that every company should, or needs to, upgrade to Windows 2008, but I think that it is important for Microsoft to make their OS better.
3. Certification is important and the MCSE IS valuable to employers. It doesn’t mean that the MCSE will get you the job, but it does mean that NOT having the MCSE will result in you NOT getting some jobs.
We require the MCSE for some of our positions, but we also require strong communication skills, diverse background, excellent references and more. You have to have ALL of these things in order to land the position.
Bozos who cheat, use brain dumps or are just paper MCSEs will be busted. They don’t usually make it past the resume screening process because their resumes are terrible or their communication skills are poor. If they make it by the initial screening, they are always embarrassed when it comes to our live technical interview. Many times they are not even prepared to answer the simplest of questions for a MCSE, like “What command do you use to install Active Directory on a Windows 2003 Server?”
Braindumpers/Cheaters are not good for certification programs but I don’t think they have (or will) destroy them.
I’m with you guys when you say that IT experience trumps certifications in any recruitment scenario.
I’ll still be persuing the microsoft certs, and here’s why:
1) The company you’re working for now aren’t going to train you in the latest & greatest OS, but you can be sure they’ll be interested once upgrade time comes around again. Who’s more valuable, the guy who’s up to speed with the OS which is about to be deployed, or his colleague who does his job and just knows the technology in place now?
2) In recruitment the choice is not normally between the guy with experience and the guy with certs. I’d take a guy with experience AND certs over the guy with just experience any day. – The guy with the certs has shown that he is still interested enough in the job to pursue them. He’s also more likely to be up to date with the available technologies.
3) There’s a lot of doubt on this board about the value of the certifications in themselves. I’ve been mcse for 10 years (Still have my Windows 2000 inflatable cushion!) and I find that the exams have improved beyond measure. The quip above about “microsoft” answers used to be true under NT4 – I don’t find it so now. (there will always be ‘best practice’ to know and understand though.) Yes, despite MSs best efforts braindumps exist. (It’s not exclusively a MS problem) but to pass the exam without braindumps does require quite an in-depth knowledge of the product.
So, I think i’ll at least be taking the MSTS exams (might as well, I get 40% off) – and I’ll probably take the enterprise one too. After all, if so many guys aren’t going to bother upgrading, it just gives me an additional distinguishing factor on my CV!
As a small business IT Support provider possessing and displaying to potential customers that you are recognised by an International software player such as Microsoft as being “competent” at using their products is a great marketing asset.
My original certifications were taken on Windows 2000, but rarely do I work on that version of Windows anymore, but my customers accept my credentials for what they represent i.e. “Microsoft Certified”.
Unfortunately, I do not have the time to keep re-studying just to keep up with yet another new operating system or server exam, but use an old-fashioned hands-on approach to deal most of the tasks I am called to.
Believe it or not CompTIA have played a major part in my IT education, and tend to be more across the board rather than focused on one manufacturer.
I do agree that Microsoft Certifications have reached a saturation point and are in need of some renovation.
I think it is important to select the certifications that are relevant to the individual. I used to work in a Novell environment and passed my CNA/CNE several years ago, but has now become redundant for me as I no longer work with Novell software.
Changes to the various Mircosoft Certifications is a fact of IT life that also matches the way technology constantly evolves, and where appropriate we need to try and keep up with those changes.
Microsoft in diversifying all of it’s certs has made it virtually impossible to work out what they mean.. there are over 50 Microsoft qualifications, set to rise to over 100.
As an Employer, we simply look for the best. MCSE was considered the best 5 years ago. Today with over 10 million MCSEs, the size of a country, it is understandable why the qualification has to be ‘retired’ – yes it won’t officially be retired, but in honesty do you really think I’ll be hiring an MCSE for a windows2008+ platform? No.
So in effect MCSEs as the title of this article infers, are dead.
The IT industry does need a shake-up, but why can’t microsoft simply follow Cisco’s route? all cisco IT pros, are valuable, from the basic CCNA to the invincible CCIE. This is simply not the case with Microsoft, with their highly inflated MCA, which is just a nod to all the friends of microsoft. Cynicism is easy to set in when you view the way microsoft works.
The facts speak as mentioned before, true there are legit MCSEs, but for every single legit MCSE there is over 100 fake ones. From countries such as India, who actively promote attaining MCSEs in a weekend, to bootcamps attaining MCSEs in a week, saturation and destruction of the MCSE was assured.
An MCSE is achieved usually within 2 years, by an already experienced infrastructure individal. MCSDs are different as they code by nature and braindumping is not an option for them as they are instantly found out, whereas a fake MCSE can get away with it for years just by knowing the basics.
The new certs address this in some degree by making the qualification job focused.. apparently! As an employer, to date, 2006/2007 we have hired over 100 Cisco staff, 97% genuine and highly valued. Microsoft staff: 250 hired,with over 70% rejected at 2nd indepth technical interview for false IT knowledge. Of the 250 staff hired, over 65% have no microsoft qualifications, their skill comes from indepth experience, and remarkably their abilities far exceed those with microsoft qualifications, most technical leads are from non-microsoft qualified staff.
It was initially surprising to see how many fake microsoft individuals were out there, though a lot of them are legit in their depth of knowledge, it comes from their experience not the microsoft certs.
As a consortium of banking companies, we no longer view microsoft qualifications as a requirement, and no longer advertise for microsoft certified individuals; Viewing the new certs, nothing will change here, as the whole system needs a revamp,- a simple structure to follow as mentioned before is CISCO’s basic: CCNA CCNP CCIE
No employer will be bothered to check what the new microsoft certs mean, as even microsoft can’t decide what to name them. it’s a spaghetti nightmare.
I don’t wish to offend the legit Microsoft types, but you will find that your MCSE becomes quite valueless in a few months, especially in the UK, London, city environment, which has already formalised a new interview method for IT staff, which excludes microsoft certified individuals. CISCO individuals with ‘some’ microsoft knowledge are more favoured than certified microsoft individuals. which is a shame.
Hopefully microsoft will wake-up and address the short-comings of the new certs, as they stand, no-one in my environment will even bother advertise jobs for them. It looks like CISCO individuals will be asked to assist in Microsoft environments more often.
Rob:
Some very good points. I have to say that this is my biggest complaint with Microsoft certifications. Why can’t they keep it simple? I have long felt that the MCSA, MCDST and all of the new fangled certifications were confusing and somewhat worthless from a HR perspective. Although Cisco has diversified their certification offerings quite a bit, they have stuck with the core CCNA, CCNP and CCIE. They have kept it simple for both the IT pro and the employer.
Scott:
Thank you for the interesting points raised; we do value confirmed MCSEs in the City of London, UK – it’s just as mentioned, we work by the KISS principle, Keep it Simple, St*pid! which microsoft fails to do repeatedly.
Yes, Cisco has diversified as well, but in a clear consise structured fashion, which is easy for an employer to follow and respect. Hence the uptake of cisco certified individuals is never ending and has increased dramatically this year.
Microsoft seem to be intent on flooding the market with a specialist for every microsoft technology.
As said, the employment market wants a simple way to hire individuals based on their certifications. Having to look up the acronym for every single microsoft qualification quickly becomes tiresome.
one thing that a colleague said to me earlier today when reviewing the new microsoft certifications ‘they look bloody ugly!’ – unfortunately I have to agree even on that point, the MCSE does sound a lot sexier than an MCITP!
still what will be will be, and microsoft will have their way.. on a side note, I’d like to thank you for training up many of our IT staff with your courses. we always favour Trainsignal courses and trainers as the best. Your Exchange2003 course was exceptionally good and our current exchange gurus are grateful for your excellent approachable and understandable teaching method.
Keep up the good work.
I’m currently a student who has been researching the IT market. It seems to me that While the MCSE can be valuable. The Cisco Certs are better. Also Having a Bachelors Degree in IT is optimum. I will have my BSIT soon. I’ve been networking with employers as well as other people in the industry and I’ve come to find out that while Certs are a great thing to have I know from talking to these people that having a BSIT or similar degree will get you the job alot faster than just being Certified.
I plan on getting both. Last but not least there are many in this field (that I know) who started out as certified computer guys but were required by their employers to seek a degree before they could move up in their careers
Mike
I am working on MCSE 2003 I had Finsih Windows XP exam and server Exam ..
I was planning to make Exchange as as the next exam .. But I will Stop and start with Exchange 2007
There are some good points here. I have had my MCSE since NT4 and have upgraded to 2000 and 2003. I will also be upgrading to 2008 (it is not that hard).
Some of the statements here go a little too far as to say that there is no value is a MCSE certification. When you are looking to hire an employee to manage your 5000/10000 user Active Directory, I don’t think that you are going to be looking for a CCIE. It does not hurt to have a CCIE, but clearly that person is not focused on AD. I have worked with a CCIE before and he knew AD pretty well and thought he knew it better than he did. He knew Cisco in and out. In general, I am not even competing for the same jobs as a CCIE or CCNA (at least at the size of the companies I work at). Those job functions are completely seperated between WAN teams and Windows teams…
What it comes down to is that you need to find a person with the background in you are looking for. The MCSE certification alone will not get you a Senior Systems Engineer position (I hope), but it is looked and shows that you are dedicated to being the best at your position.
Just my opinion…
Mike
Mike B
Couldn’t agree with you more. The MCSE (and the new Server 2008 certs) do have value. It is unfair to say that they have NO value. Certifications and committment to education are one of many criteria that I consider when looking at a candidate. I definitely value the MCSE.
Ironically, with all of this “Cisco Love” going around, Cisco just announced that they are adding a new low-end certification, the CCENT. So much for keeping it simple!
I will follow up with a new post discussing this certification (and the new CCNA) later this weekend. Thanks to all for the excellent comments.
Scott
I’m all for new certifications, true it is money driven by microsoft and cisco, but how else can you value an individual?
Most companies view certifications first, then experience, a certificate is just a key to a door, then you have to let your experience come into play.
Death of the MCSE? about time too!! 7 exams was way unfair, and often the exams overlapped so you had to have knowledge of the entire field.
New Certificates keep the IT industry fresh, too many stale IT specialists with only NT4 is a definite no-no.
The backlash of the Death to MCSE probably comes from those newly attained MCSEs, and those still studying the current MCSE 2003 track! – do you stop or continue? I’d say continue, windows2003 will be around for at least another 5 years. Uptake of windows2008 will be slow due to platform requirements and also due to the fact that windows2003 is a superb network OS. A lot of companies have only updated to windows2003 in the last couple of years, so they won’t be looking to update for quite some time… hence the slow uptake of the client windows Vista as a corporate platform. Why fix something that isn’t broke?
At some point we all have to jump onto the certification merry-go-round, Use certification to improve yourself, not as a way of showing off your new shiny medals!
The IT Industry requires a turn-over of up-to-date qualified professionals. Too long have MCSE types rested on their laurels.
Gunfighters, have to practice their art. In every field you have to fight for your your position, if it is indeed a valued one, such as the Network System Administrator.
In the police force, you have to go down to the range and shoot targets, if you fail to hit 5 out of 6 targets, then you are retired from the armed services patrol. If an MCSE does not know how to maintain Active Directory FSMO roles, s/he should be retired.
It comes down to training, you need an indicator of your skill set, new certificates indicate your level of understanding of a new technology. Ultimately your certificate is a valuable qualification in a timed-environment. Microsoft will again ask that you re-sit exams every 2-3 years, this is to weed out the weak from the strong.
The IT industry can only benefit from the strong. Many IT pros are considered the best because they have been there for 20plus years, but if they have learnt nothing, and have sat in a chair, spinning around and eating potato chips and drinking chocolate milkshakes, then what is the value and worth in having such a person?
Experience is only good when it is good. Meaning it is experience that has learnt new technologies. I applaud training regimes such as trainsignal that provide crucial important up-to-date training material.
In dropping the certification requirements down to 3 and 5 exams, microsoft have done a good thing. I know some have compared the 3 exams to the MCSA and the 5 to the MCSE – which is the ultimate goal. Realistically no-one goes for the MCSA type qualification, it is merely a stop-gap on the approach to the final crowning glory of the MCSE. Indeed, it is said to be harder to achieve the MCSA than the MCSE, due to the notorious 291 exam.
Thus one who can slay the beast, can easily slay the remaining worm?
I say to the writer of this excellent article, well done. It is important that microsoft listens to the voices of those that have to sit these exams. I too have been in with these strange exams. And yes I do see the writer’s point on making the new MCTIP?? (sorry i forget the letters) MCTS or whatever it is called, making the qualification harder? I would not like to see microsoft compress the qualification from 7 to 5, if is such a case of the MCSE being squeezed from 7 to 5. and the MCSA from 4 to 3? I would presume, that microsoft would change the format, and re-work the exams from scratch, and have the questions more specific and simulated and point and click types, rather than have the same questions from the previous exams, slightly changed and dropped into a server2008 scenerio.
The new influx of technologies from Microsoft, virtual server, sharepoint and even the new wave of sql and exhange2007 should be carefully separated from into their own fields. Though I hear virtual server will be part of 2008 server.
Again, as the writer has said, the ‘clunky’ style of the logos and sign-offs will be very off-putting on a resume or email. I can see the microsoft logo-builder going into over-drive on this one.
I understand that from my employers viewpoint, that he or she won’t have a clue what the new microsoft certifications are about. What will the job requirements be now? Already Job Ads list every requirement under the sun just to be a call-desk operator simply because the person putting the ad out has no idea what the IT letters means.
I see a new age for IT qualifications. It is much like being at school. Before only a handful of IT personnel had qualifications, now it is the de facto, that all staff are qualified.
The MCSE is simply being re-born as the MCITP: Enterprise Server 2008 Administrator – like a phoenix from the flames, or a maybe a cuckoo bird from the flames, as it’s a bit messed up.
To those that are jumping off the microsoft band-wagon, well perhaps you were never on it, as qualifications are about self-improvement and not putting framed certificates on the office-wall.
There will always be endless changes in qualifications and exam requirements. We all know what microsoft is about. We all have to work with their technologies. When the 2008 exams are settled, take the upgrades, one to get the server2008 requirement, and just 2 more for the enterprise2008 requirement. not so bad really? only 3 exams for an MCSE qualified individual to take. Then you are sorted for 3 years or so, then just another single exam upgrade every 2-3 years. And you can pick off speciality exams, or even take CompTIA and Cisco exams as well. It all benefits you in the end. And your Employer will give you those bonus rises as you continue to become the best in your area.
Good luck, and be positive. To have any certifications show that you are indeed an intelligent and worthwhile individual to have in employment.
The End.
There are a lot of good comments within these opinions and I agree with many of them. I particularly like 11, 12, 14, 16, 19, 22 & 23.
We are a small IT consulting firm. When hiring new techs we give preference to applicants holding certifications that meet our people skills and experience requirements. Persons with certifications demonstrate to us a desire to improve their knowledge base. Once we hire a tech they are expected to continue their education by renewing or obtaining new certifications.
Certifications alone do not make good technicians. A well seasoned technician is a person who posses all of the following … certifications, good people skills, good communication skills, diversified experience, common sense and is trustworthy.
hey hey,
as my fellow school friends have said there are lots of reasons to be happy to be an MCSE:2003 – don’t forget, when windows2008 comes out, who will they be asking to upgrade the servers? The MCSE:2003 specialists!!!
And the MCSE does not expire, so you will be an MCSE and a MCTS and MCTIP.
Also you become a Legend!!!!! No more MCSEs mean you will be one of the Elite!! It will become a legendary status. one of the last MCSEs in the world. People will look upon you and worship you.
See maybe not so much to the level I said.. but they are definite plus pluses to being an MCSE. Although I’m an MCP on XP, I rate MCSE as the best in the world.
The new certs are fine, but they won’t be any about really until 2009.. remember windows2008 has to mainstream before you can really understand the environment.
Microsoft will probably re-instate MCSE in 2010.. I have heard rumours.. MCSE 2010!!
One reason for the scale down of size of the MCSE now known as MCITP, is that the elective is not required as it has it’s own certificate pathway.
Microsoft probably want to encourage more people to hit the certificate trail, giving everyone a way to find the software more suitable to them.
One thing for sure is that it makes things a lot more interesting.
As now ALL OF US have to re-certify!!
even the trainers on this site!
Interesting reading through all of this it seems like we have a collection of engineers and “Managers” here.
I should make a few points:
“Death of the MCSE? about time too!! 7 exams was way unfair, and often the exams overlapped so you had to have knowledge of the entire field.”
Dear All,
It is an interesting cat-n’-mouse game with the biggies fighting it out….in the certifications arena…
I’m from India and here certifications are a joke….anyone with dumps can just get thru and then u see them posting their resumes all over the place trying to find a decent job !!!!
I understand a very simple KISS principle, if a person is worth his weight in knowledge of an IT domain, he’ll succeed sooner than later….
It gives me tremendous pleasure to have achieved the status of an MCSA (Messaging + Security) and the pleasure comes out of the fact that i have studied hard and practiced hard to achieve the certifications —- The apprecation is huge…..
Unfortunately, the quality of training and the materials provided here in India is ridiculous —– so the sheer pleasure of achieving an Int’l certification means a lot to a person like me……
Post certification, i have the priviledge of implementing a LIVE solution for a mid-sized company on Exchange and ISA servers ….. and that’s when i realise that live implementations are so critical and important for a client……
Here a CISCO certification wud’nt do much gud since the cleint is looking for a Messaging and Security solution and not routing solutions ……
Hence i wud stick with Microsoft and agree to a fact that they shud devise a way of certifying people like Redhat does —– by performing exercises on computers connected on a network…..as per statistics that i’m aware off in India, the RHCE is considered to be a tough nut to crack…….
So my suggestion wud be role based rather than, product based……. U can only keep improving your skills post certification and a new product shud have good training to upgrade skill sets rather than a new certifcation to prove your expertise again and again…
My 2 bits — Cheers
Interesting how in the IT interview process we find CV’s with tertiary qualifications highlighted but not MCP/MCSE qualifications.
There seems to be a stigma attached to anyone with MCP/MCSE on their CV ie… it goes straight into the garbage bin unforunately!
The IT community doesn’t have a positive view of certs. Its what you do on the job and how you implement solutions in the real world is what employers want to know.
And that’s how IT managers judge your ability.
I currently hold 9 IT certifications and as I look back I regret putting so much time, effort, & money into the whole game.
I am finished with the certification treadmill. They prove nothing (imvho) and provide very little (or zero) return on investment!
I have three MCSE certs; nt, 2k, 2k3. The madness stops there!
No thanks on the MCITP or whatever it is called!
I think this last point is a little over the top; are people really throwing out resumes because the candidate has a MCSE? If so, then they are missing out on their best candidates. “Good/Legitimate” MCSEs have taken the time to learn and understand the theoretical side of their trade. Combine this with an employee who has real world experience and good communciation skills, and you have the makings of a good employee.
This point has been made over and over again in this post; a MCSE by itself means nothing but combined with other skills is a great addition to your resume/career. MAYBE some companies turn away MCSEs (just because they are MCSEs) but the vast majority are happy to hire (and often looking for) people with the MCSE certification.
Scott
In my views blaming on Microsoft certification is wrong…In today’s world like IT infrastructure outsourcing has lot of demand of MS-Certified professional. I have seen in India many students who have just graduation passed out are successfully able to gain good jobs in IT remote infrastructure support market. And seen many customers demand MS certified professionals.
I Really Think Microsoft Is A Waste Of Time, I Was Fooled To Follow Its Courses, But Not Any More, Red Hat & Cisco Your Certifications Are The Best & I Am Comming for Them
Steve the point about MCSE you made is the garbage.
Most of the top professional and writers have a MCP or a MCSE … so you would throw away their CV’s in the garbage?
There are lots of jobs you can not even apply for without the MS certs.
I have worked in the banking environment which will not even look at your CV if you do not have this on there!
Is it because you have no IT qualifications yourself?
It’s not the best way of ensuring you have a professional for a job however it shows enthusiasm and professionalism. Technical questions and talking about experiences/scenarios should always be asked an interview’s whether you’re qualified or not… This is the best way to ensure the best candidates.
Wow! talk about being on opposite sides of the spectrum! I totally agree that the Microsoft certs r insane here in Africa the track costs almost as much as a degree program which takes 3 years! But I absolutely believe that just braindumping to pass is to your own disadvantage coz the job will require you to Know not guess so have faith and read eventually the powers that be will realise that with experience and certs you rule!
The BIGGEST disappointment in all this debate is that MICROSOFT have FAILED to see what they have done.. The MCSE should have been kept, not abandoned!!!!
The MCSE is an historical qualification, and the benchmark for all microsoft candidates, now it’s a simple free for all…
I have just come off an Interquad QA-IQ course for microsoft security 2003, The MCT trainer told the whole class that the MCSE was now considered a dead horse qualification, and that we should all go for MCTS. I was shocked to hear this as I’m an MCSA and wanted to complete the MCSE, but was told that there is no point to to pursueing the MCSE as it’s no longer a recognised qualification!!!
I had a big arguement with the MCT on this, but in the end I saw he was right, why complete a qualification and have to be phased out by microsoft the next month.
sigh, I’ve given up on the MCSE:2003, I’ll wait til 2009 and go for the 2008 MCTS qualifications. I am so bitterly disappointed with what microsoft have done. I was so looking forward to joining the MCSE ranks..
now I hear microsfot is even getting rid of the microsft exam centres at pearson que!!! what the heck is going on with microsoft!!?
right now I am so angry as I type, I have to go to another exam provider, this is ridiculous. what next?? do we all have to fly to america to take our exams in bill gates house?
Microsoft sort yourself out!! I’m going Linux if this continues.
If Microsoft is good at one thing, it is brain washing individuals like myself and everyone else in thinking that a “MCSE” holds true value in the IT industry when in fact they do not. I was consumed with earning my MCSE and it took me almost 2 years to complete. I started out with A+, Network+ and then the big 3 by Microsoft; MCP, MCSA and finally MCSE. After putting out 500 resumes and not even getting a handful of interviews I realized what a mistake I made.
All this certification crap cost me over 2 1/2 years pay, on top of 15,000 that I drained out of my account, on top of the materials which cost over $5,000 along with the cost of exams $125.00. Also, let me through in that no matter how good you are, you “WILL” fail close to half of the exams and maybe 2 times over. The whole system is setup for us to invest our time and life in and come away with nothing. I’ll bet my life that most MCSE’s aren’t making good money or even working in the IT industry. If your lucky you’ll get a job at Futureshop. Every job interview I have had has come down to, “How much Linux experience do you have? How good are you with Cisco products?”
I can’t tell you how frustrating this is for me. I’ll almost bet that Microsoft owns Monster and has shares in Workopoulos. If you don’t know what they are, they’re garbage fony job banks that won’t land you squat. I think Microsoft is behind a lot of “NO” good marketing strategies and that’s what they use to brain wash people into thinking there is a world of wealth waiting for them if they achieve MCSE status. What a f_cking joke!
Microsoft, you took everything I’ve had and now I’m left with nothing. I invested over 2 years of my time and all my money and made so many sacrifices for your useless credentials that have “NO” meaning in the real world. You’re very welcome!
Linux here I come. I’m not taking any certifications for Linux, however I like the free alternative. When I was hardcore Microsoft, I argued with a Linux Gooo who kept trying to tell me how useless Windows is. Think about this for a minute, with every distribution of windows from 95 and up, it has crashed every desktop that it has ever been installed on and on average about 10 times over. I’ll put this in English, Microsoft Windows has crashed every desktop on the face of this earth at least 10 times over. What a terrible stat. If Windows is a good product then I’d hate to see what bad is.
In closing I’ll say that Linux doesn’t crash, it doesn’t lock up, it does give you blue screens, nor do you get hacked or spied on and you sure as hell don’t get viruses or suffer from the wonderful world of popups. What was I thinking dedicating myself to them all those years?
Enter Windows vista, I installed it for for a day and I ended up with spyware and everything else you can think of. It is garbage. Also, I thought they separated from the past with Vista. I had no support for my Promise FastTrack controller in Vista at all and yet I installed an XP driver for my Promise Controller on Windows Vista and it worked. What a joke. Microsoft sucks!
Bill, you have done to me what you’ve done to others, you broke me. I no longer wonder why you smirk everytime you are asked a question during an interview. All you do is count your billions. Have any of you thought about going to Microsoft’s Job Bank to see how many MCSE’s they have positions for? The answer is 0. All they hire are accountants.
Jim,
P.S. I’m learning Linux but I am taking my life in a new direction. IT is a fony non existent corporate world that you get brain washed in to thinking is there throughout your training. They play us like fools.
I’m not really a fan of changing around what’s been in place for over a decade. Like the old saying goes: “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”.
While everyone’s spoken up about how much they dislike the new MCITP path, nobody has mentioned the MCA at all. I am totally in favor of this, and have long thought this was much needed in the Microsoft cert world.
Cicso has their CCIE in which you must pass a lab exam. The MCA sounds like Microsoft’s response. From what I’ve read, a person holding an MCA will truly be valuable. Want to hold an MS cert that means something? Then achieve the MCA.
–cheers
Wohooooo,
A lot of hatred for MS and Bill
… well to all those ppl who have worked hard and put in time on their MS certifications, Hearty CONGRATULATIONS !!! on achieving certifications ….
Well let me pen a couple of things that i guess we all have done so far .
1. Put in time and effort to do a certification.
2. Put in an effort to learn a technology as vast as MS servers
3. Didn’t take pride in completing the certis
4. Reacting on herd mentality
Now lemme come to my point….
“Let’s shift to Linux …..” — Take the effort all over again and spend some more of your time to learn new ways of implementing an OS ??? I feel if you could ulitise your MS OS knowledge, it would only add to your own value …..
I agree MS has made a lot of money but it has also given you a chance to make your mark in the field of CORPORATE solutions … now instead of cribbing over what can’t be done, think in terms of what can be done and “Just Do IT” like Nike says ……
A profesional with ample knowledge and a certificate to boot is more valuable than 1 without a certificate ……
IMHO — a certificate is just a piece of well made paper, it’s value appreciates only when the person who owns it makes gud use of it — -else it will remain a piece of paper and u’ll have a bitter taste like the rest of MS haters here …..
I am a MCSA (Security + Messaging) and i fully intend to complete the MCSE track, which i know is still valid and then maybe take the new certs later in life ……
Have u uys noticed, when u get certified it says certified from …..2005 .. which means 10 years down the line you have 10 years of practical hardcore experience, which is extermely valueable…..
So guys stop cursing your bad luck and MS and make a resolution to use the certifactes that you have earned with all the hard work …..
Cheers
I’m off to take the next paper to the MCSE
Bear with me…
I spent the weekend hacking into my old Sun Rocket gizmo and configuring my new free voip setup with FWD + IPKALL + GC since Sun Rocket went bust. 10 years ago when nat was very problematic for gamers I was experimenting with ipmasquerade & linux or microsoft proxy server to get some quake or half life game server to bridge the local and internet. I have maintained the occasional web site and am knowledgeable in php, css, mysql, flash, etc. When flash was first released several years ago I was in front of my computer for days at a time creating what seemed like the coolest intro movie at the time. I have maintained my own debain, nt, & win2k servers in my house. I only stumbled on this thread by accident because I am looking for Promise Fast Track 100 raid drivers so I can install the windows 2008 enterprise beta 3 DVD I just received in the mail on this spare computer I just built, on a raid 0 array.
What can I say the thread caught my attention because I am not now, nor have ever been employed in IT. Nor do I have a college degree. I DO HAVE an innate ability to learn, read and comprehend technical manuals, and apply it to a problem for a solution. That is a skill set they can’t teach you in the class room.
You’d think I have an easy time getting into some IT job yet I can’t get an interview. The few companies I have ever interviewed with turn me down because either 1) I have no formal education 2) I have no certifications or 3) I have no on the job experience.
If you have the same passion about technology that I do, I would not fuss about certifications. Instead keep in mind that you get paid $$$ to do what you enjoy. Surely you have days where you can’t wait to get out of bed and go to work for the next challenge!
Take it from this IT outsider if I had some of your credentials I would be making big $$$ because I enjoy IT so much I sit here and do it at home for free, just to learn. If companies ever start interviewing for raw ability and test me while I am sitting in front of a computer instead of asking questions… I might get your job because I will figure it out!
-Sean
seanatwork@cfl.rr.com
Qualifications are cool, use them to increase your knowledge of a subject, the rewards follow your knowledge.
Whatever the name of a qualification, it’s all about enhancing your skills for the IT market.
hey guys i am planning on taking the MCSA/MCSE 2003 track. after seeing the posts on this site i am confused as hell
(
what do you personally suggest for me? i am already CCNA and MCDST…
Thanks!
About you saying it is too complicated to say I am MCITP: Enterprise Server Admin, MCTS: ISA, MCTS: Exhange, etc… isnt that what the Application Platforms exam is going to cover? — so you will already have that knowledge by obtaining your MCITP: Enterprise Admin. Getting your MCTS in those areas would just be more in depth or specialization IMO. I think they are cool.
Hi,
I started the Microsoft track along with Cisco and CompTIA some 9 years ago. The problem with MS certs is that by the time you get them or nearly get them, MS devalues them in some way and jumps to the latest product. For the active learner immersed in an up-to-date server environment this is fine. If actually have some other focus in your life (like income, family, sleep etc.), continually jumping on the next MS bus can be nearly impossible. The crux of the situation is that you have to get and keep continual access to a Windows network that you can experiment on. That means you will break it at sometime. This is not good if your job depends on it. Mine does!
Quite simply, Microsoft has the most functional product out there. Unless you are willing to train all your users, the Linux track can represent just as much effort. Companies NEED MS people! If you want to work in this field, you NEED to understand MS products. You can use MAC/Linux products as well.
I have actively supported networks, designed networks, and advised management and users for the last 8 years. I have NOT been able to maintain the “guru” credentials that it is supposed that we all need, but have always been looked toward when there was a network needing support. The thing that got me here was certification in Cisco, Microsoft, and CompTIA. I fondly remember sitting through numerous interviews where I listened to HR flatly state that certs were not very important and then quickly ask “What certifications do you have?” The certs get you in the door and allow you to be viewed with respect. We must understand that some certs are just there as a sales tool for Microsoft. If there is a MS cert that directly addresses a need for knowledge that you have – GET IT! Groupware is where its at, you need Exchange, Sharepoint and SQL to name a few. Cisco certs are comprehensive and help with understanding the WAN/LAN side of things. CompTIA is just general computer knowledge and sort of shows a well rounded understanding.
As previously indicated, an MS cert got me here. The things that keep me here are an ability to listen and formulate a solution that I can implement, an interest in what new technologies can provide to my environment, a smile, and a good work ethic. I can rant and rave at MS with the best of you, but I don’t hate them. It would be nice if they were’nt continually reinventing the wheel and/or the acronym. They do seem to have the idea that we all work for enterprise companies and have the budget (time AND money) to replace the proverbial bus every time a new tire is needed, but sometimes WE just need to replace/fix the tire. New certs are the spare tire, and YOU need to decide how many you need. Don’t blame the guy who owns the garage for trying to sell you something.
I’m interested to see one of the exams. I see a lot of assumptions that these exams will be easy since there are less to take compared to the MCSE and MCSE + tracks. That doesn’t mean the quality is the same or less. In fact, it probably means quite the opposite.
I too have acquired alphabet soup after my title, but will likely have to take this so my consulting firm can retain their partnership with MS, so as much as I’d like to dump it…
I do recommend CISSP, CISSP+, CISSA if your in the InfoSec arena.
I find the perfect balance is to have a mix of vendor provided and agnostic certs coupled with experience.
I happened to stumble upon this thread by accident looking for information about the new track. Personally it’s been a struggle for me to reach here. I started out at the age of 18 and moved on from software to hardware, microsoft and then networking. I spent all my money and time in IT, and haven’t made it. Today at the age of 27 i have MCSE 2000 and CCNP. I work as a network technician and really don’t have anything to do with Windows administration. I trained on cisco pix, sun solaris 10, Redhat , wireless but at the end of the day you need to be focused and the mastery of one area and one area only. So the technology that you don’t use is really a waste of time and effort.
I don’t need to upgrade to Win2008 but I have a genuine interest in it. I probably will upgrade my technical abilities just for my knowledge. I don’t think that anyone wants to whose spent over 5 years in the Microsoft domain wants to be left out in the dark.
As far as Cisco certification is concerned reaching a CCIE requires a lot of gear, equipment, time and money like a Ph.d and it’s a painful struggle. The choices are Voice, Wireless, Design, Routing and switching, Security. However Cisco technology is also evolving rapidly it is hard find material and support for voice, wireless.
Well we have evolved a long way since the days of the main frame. We have jobs in IT because of Microsoft, the role of It depts., of support staff, call centers, service centers , help desk , networks, ISP’s exists because of Microsoft.
As (Jimmy J- 37) quote “with every distribution of windows from 95 and up, it has crashed every desktop that it has ever been installed on and on average about 10 times over. I’ll put this in English, Microsoft Windows has crashed every desktop on the face of this earth at least 10 times over. What a terrible stat. If Windows is a good product then I’d hate to see what bad is.” If the damn thing didn’t carsh we wouldn’t have these jobs and im sure the Multi corporation would happy putting 10 people to support 10,000 desktops. As long as microsoft makes crappy software there always will be an Enterprise level company or Corporation stupid enough to buy it and there will always be jobs to support it . Live and let live.
HI
I am mcp on xp and i planed to take mcsa 2003 but now i m confused
ccna (cisco) or waiting for 2008 server
help me please
This is getting long.
I earn a ton of money thanks to Microsoft. I will continue to do so. I love their products. I will continue to certify.
Here in East London, South Africa, they are ‘crying’ for MCSE’s, and in a year (or 2) from now they will be crying for whatever other MS certification is relevant and current.
Personally MCSE NT4.0, 2000, and 2003, along with Linux and other CompTIA, CIW etc.
It is possible to pass your exams first time, as I have shown. 21 international exams, not one failure yet, and no braindumps. Hope this helps anyone reading this thread who has any spark of hope of improving themsleves.
what i think is certification is diffrent thing and knowledge is diffrent thing. so its not like if you are certified then only you have knowledge so the thing which matters is Knowledge you gain. Getting certificate is a easy but implementing these things in Practical is Diffrent thing.
I am Looking for the Exchange 2007 and Wants to upgrade my MCSE Certification from Windows Server 2003 to 2008.I Am Microsoft Lover and have Worked For Microsoft.
Thanks
Bhaskar Saxena
India
I wish microsoft had kept the MCSE as the title of their new exams, so far i’ve not met one person that has a favourable word for the new naming convention. It’s too complicated.
Who knows, maybe Microsoft will see the light and bring the MCSE back.
Personally I think MS are way off with this one, seem to be getting more and more out of touch.
From an employer’s point of view, they have more important things to do than repeatedly researching MS’s overly-complicated, short-lived qualification structures. Any sensible employer hires someone based on their judgement of the canidate’s skills and experience (+personality); as long as they can see some related quals to back it up. They’re rarely concerened that it has to be in that exact field and bang up to date. As we all know being MS certified in a particular area is by no means a guaruntee that someone will be good at their job!!
From a technician’s point of view you get sick of wasting your time studying for an exam that’s only going to last you another few years. It’s a lot of hard work and you can direct it at something that will benefit your career much more… I think someone earlier said “CCNA here I come”? That will be my next stop! Oh after some Linux quals. Not wasting any more time on MCSABCDEFGHIJs and the rest!
I put my heart and soul into the last round of Microsoft certifications spending about five months of intense study. When I finished all the exams, I realized that Microsoft had lowered the bar such that anybody could pass. I felt cheated and soon quit the certification path.
Drilling deep into Microsoft technologies pays in the long run and the certification curriculum is a good way to structure those studies. I just wish MS test standards would tighten up to the degree necessary to give those credentials credence.
Hi Everybody,
I was going thru the various points above and seems funny. As far as I know,there is always a demand in Market for certified professionals in all streams. Its all about you to take the choice,whether it is MS ,Redhat and so ……Anyways,we have to spent some from our pocket……
Whenever a product is launched in market,its the responsibility of a professional in the respective field to acquire knowledge on that.So defenitely,a certification on that would be an added advantage, atleast till you are shortlisted for an interview.
Rest upon You…
I have completed M.Sc( Computers) . Which course i will join please inform me.
i am interested in networking so which course i join advise me.
thanking you
Just my opinion, in looking at a business and how they take applications; it seems to me when I studied what a company wants in a person is some very specific knowledge.
As a business I say, I have a business and I need an expert in AD; so if I look for that person, how do I find that person without a special certification?
Most of the time, I think, business will look more at the cert, so to find a better match of the skills they need to do the job.
To me, for good or bad, Microsoft is cartering to this need, not the person getting the certification. With systems so complicated, how cannot a business operate this way?
If I take a MCSE, but I need a AD guy, I can’t afford to train him when they said that they had the skill to do the job??!!
As a developer of Microsoft products, I can only imagine what they are going to do with the certs, but from the business side they now can get more specific on what they need to do a job.
My cost of doing business just increased alot. The Microsoft exams are a real PITA, pain in the ****, and the effort is many times diluted with general certs.
To bad they could not think of a better roads to meet business and people taking the certs.
The 2008 exams are rolling out, no-one seems that interested in attaining any microsoft qualifications from my organisation, those already certified in microsoft, have mostly called it a day.
Shame, wonder why no-one likes microsoft qualifications any more?
wages are going down for them too. can’t believe that adverts are only giving 19,000 GBP for them.. what the heck happened?
Cisco certs are going up though.
Microsoft: Your days are numbered!!!
Hi, All IT floks….. let me tell you my 2 years of IT Recruitment Experience…
I was the lead IT recruiter working form India for US client since 2005. I completed my Masters in IT and I started working as IT Recruiter…
in my recruitment assignments I saw many certified guys….then I did my certification along with the job ccna and mcse 2003…
but it never paid me or land me in the job of system admin or network admin….
cause I was a IT recruiter or head hunter….
now real insight into IT world when any MNC looks for hiring IT professional they look for technical term in Resume or CV and experience… so if you fake your resume..
It can lead you to the interview but inperson technical interview will test your real skills. certification can give you entry but experience will give you edge over others so don’t look for more certification… but look for hardcore experience on new technology…so see train signal or any good technical video upgrade your skills and just apply for the job rest of the things depends on your real world simulation and understanding of server roles and Ip understanding (example ip subnetting with ipv4 like class a , class b, class c subnetting) and ipv6 understanding as well….
ip v4 is dying and ipv6 will change the world…so how many of you truly understand IPV6 supported in windows 2008 server and in windows 2003 server… this will be the base point where certification will never test you but your real world skills will test you and second is vmware virtualization…. or any virtualization technology…..
in USA right now economic crisis is there but virtualisation is booming in IT…
so think to become either vcp or vmware professional…..with mcts
………….:)
or san (storage area network specialist)……….
IT will start to boom from 2009………………2010………………….
till that time windows 2008 might reach to its peak…. and it might be the adopted system in whole world …then microsoft will say be ready for windows 2011 or 2012…….. a real picture of the microsoft technology lies here….
windows 2008 server is going to be in the market for coming 3 years this cycle will end in 2011…so be ready once again…after MCTS
I beleive the MCSE should not expire . Since half of the companies are still on 2000 and 2003 platform . So changing the certification will not make any diffrence . Also if some is professional in something enhancement in knowledge is ok .but dont phaze that out completely
It seems as though Microsoft’s claim to fame was the fact that it created an E-Z to use Operating system (i.e. GUI interface etc.) as opposed to the old CLI based OS’s. Now it seems as though things are working their way backwards. You need a certification to properly and effectively harness this computing power once again. Did I hear someone mention KISS? If you are a software vendor, do you want to pride yourself on a peace of software that only a select few can take advantage of implement, maintain etc ? Are companies going to want to implement a system that requires the skills of a brain surgeon to maintain? Does Microsoft really care about a technicians job security? Seems like Microsoft is going to be focused on providing a business with a powerful IT solution that is E-Z to maintain and inexpensive. With this in mind, what does the future really hold for IT? Seem like MS certs are just another way for MS to make money. The more people there are skilled in maintaining MS related products, the less businesses have to pay for their support. Perhaps Microsoft sees it as a good thing the market is flooded with people claiming MCP’s, MCSE’s, MCITP’e-i-o-u, sometimes Y. Seems like the best thing to do is get a college degree and stay as current as possible with what ever technology is in demand at the given moment.
Microsoft’s all products have bugs and loopholes but we have no option except using them..
Same way Microsoft’s certification also has bugs and loopholes but we have no option except getting certified!!
Microsoft certifications as said earlier is just a door which might give you an entry. As an IT Manager I would consider a person with Microsoft certification to an entry level post if he has a good Educational track record and communication skills. But for senior post I would prefer people with certifications like ITIL.
Personally I believe Microsoft have done the right thing, the MCSE was initially designed to encompass their entire network infrastructure, this is no longer possible and individual qualifications reepresent the individuals skill area.
Cisco has followed the same path, and diversified their qualifications. Linux/unix though far more stable, still have some way to go to become a major platform and remains a specialist field.
My message would be to do what interests you, do not be driven by qualifications, rather be driven by your IT interest, that’s the first area of success, everything follows from there.
I have just passed XP exams and have been in love with the MCSE track and looking forward to it. Reading these comments really hurts. should I make a u-turn or….. am disturbed. Wish I din’t stamble on this site today.
Hey Trevor-
Don’t read into the comments too much, everybody has their own opinion and many people are anti-Microsoft. My opinion is that the MCSE 2003 track is still a worthwhile pursuit for many people.
Server 2003 will still be the Server OS of choice for many years to come. If you are looking for a job, you will find more jobs requiring Server 2003 skills. It will also be much easier for you to start working on the Server 2008 track in a year or two because you already understand the core concepts. For example, Active Directory in 2008 will be much easier for you to understand with your background knowledge of Active Directory in 2003.
Whatever you do, keep moving forward. Working in IT is all about learning new skills and the worst thing you can do is to do nothing at all. Come back and visit us often.
Thanks,
Scott Skinger
It is my view that there will always be more microsoft jobs then cisco jobs and definately more then linux. This is just how it is in the market.
So the microsoft cert will always be needed, if you are going for networking then you are going for cisco, but you will be applying to a smaller pool of available positions. There are so many more microsoft positions that it would be foolish not to get the certs….and microsoft knows this that is why they have made is complicated and that you have to renew it ever two years(which sucks because server 2008 won’t change much during its lifetime, then will just issue a new OS)
It may be easy to pass the exam, but that is partly because Microsoft products are easier to administer, hands down.
This post was very easily available and very helpful. Now i am sure, everything would going be much more easy for me, because i got the action path for me, what exams i need to take care of and i need to look for.
Thanks
Men! I read the entire post and I don’t really know which path to take. I already have an MCP since 2002 and started to get interested in getting more Microsoft certifications as I finish my college degree in Information Technology. Should I just start looking at the 2008 certifictions or should I first get the older certifications before switching? Please, advice… thanks.
Does anybody know if there are videos out there that teach about practical approaches to required by these certifications in the real world because I don’t have that much of an experience with my MCP. Thanks.
Hi,
I just want to say one thing: MCSE is NOT dead.
It will take a long time before windows server 2003 is phased out.
So you will benefit from this certification from learning it in the first place or just proving that you know a lot about windows 2003 server.
Also from my experience (and i live in the netherlands) MCSE certification is absolutely required to get the best jobs in IT.
WITHOUT certification you will end up setting in a 1st line helpdesk team. (Even if you have 10 years experience with windows server)
WITH MCSE certification you will get the better jobs, for example as a Windows systems administrator.
So for all the guys saying that MCSE 2003 is wortheless; Come to the netherlands and experience the opposite.
Kind regards,
Geoffrey
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can Scott or Trainsignal clarify what we should do??
3 circumstances:
a.) I have no qualifications, where do I begin?
b.) I have MCP in 2 subjects, do I continue to MCSA or MCSE?
c.) I am an MCSA, do I do 3 more exams for MCSE?
I AM CONFUSED!!!!!! what do I do!!? I only have 2 MCPs, some friends have none, and said they will go for 2008 instead.. I am on XP and Server 2003 MCP, BUT we migrate to 2008 next year!! Have I wasted my time AGAIN!
I don’t want to spend my life doing Microsoft qualifications, I just want a job!
I think vendors like Microsoft, CISCO etc etc. should pay IT Pros for being a Zombie marketing tool. I have come across with many CISCO certified pros who are as useless as Microsoft Cert holders. I think hiring organisation can do themselves a favour by setting real tests for new recruits, that way they can really test skills and abilities they are looking for. Also Brain dump champions may not dare to turn up for real tests.
This whole Cert scam can be stopped by changing the hiring practices by organisations ( atleast by major organisations) by setting such tests.
Certfication subprime scam should be looked in a simlar way as mortagage subprime scam.
It Pros are held hostages by Microsoft, CISCO etc etc. in a simlar way that greedy banks do.
If you leave Microsoft track you get stuck with CISCO. Same way you leave Westpac and get stuck with ANZ.
Honestly, I sense a lot of anger and fear in these comments, esp from current MS cert. holding persons.
It is easy to understand why because for those who genuinely worked hard for the MCSE or any other MS cert only to find out how we were cheated by “paper MCSEs” and the wage depressions they created, we really deserve more. And so does MS.
And for those of us who truly own the MCSE should not feel threatened by those fakers since they won’t be able to prove what you know. IT employers are often much smarter than just to pick a random MCSE off the street. Real IT people w/ experience have other forms of methods to backup their experience.
And why blame MS for all this? With the way their certs. are formed, IT people can “zero-in” on their skill set and market themselves with more flexibility. No more halo certs like the MCSE which is an ace in the hole.
I just stated studying for the new Server/Exchange certs and I think they will be a great asset to me, my clients and employer as this new tech will eventually be adopted.
For those bitchin’ and moaning about their certs, maybe some of you are those who got weeded out by the real people who actually know their stuff and took your job.
Certs are not a form of substitution for experience. And it never will be. Your cert. alone won’t get you anywhere except maybe pass the initial phone interview.
And to all those Linux/Unix lovers, well…..look around. How many businesses actually run that OS as opposed to MS? You can answer that yourself. And I’m sure you can come up w/ a good reason why that is. Unix/Linux is a niche market, and niche markets tend to have very few qualified persons to fill it. And those who do, good for you, you earned it. But jobs for it are much more limited.
As for Cisco, their core technology is not an OS which is the heart of any server. I’m not suggesting their routers and switches are expendable, but their product cycles and development doesn’t even move in the same speed. It’s like comparing apples to oranges.
It all seems quite simple to me. Qualifications + Experience = IT Pro.
IF little children have to sit exams every semester to prove their intelligence, then so should grown-ups!
I know Microsoft make quite a few boo-boos, VISTA being the biggest one. Apple are still laughing! They even use VISTA as a major factor for the uptake of MACs, which I have to say are awesome, especially that MacBook Air, gadzooks!! how slim is that thing! sorry, I digress, Ahh yes the MCSE, something to do do with the word ENGINEER?? correct? Microsoft had lawsuits on the use of the word…. Never really thought of a microsoft network guy being an engineer, do they carry utility belts or something??
I have no idea what the new Microsoft letters mean, but it’s a world of acronyms now isn’t it? The exams were always too hard, I really don’t believe any Microsoft person could pass those exams.. seriously, be honest with yourselves, if you can, you must be working in one seriously messed up network!!
Anyway by the time you’ve read a microsoft question, sometimes a page long… you’ll be half asleep… and 7 exams??? puh-lease!!!
But wait, I’m not knocking study, build a server yourself, set up DNS, DHCP, Active Directory, setup the roles, do certificates… experience is the key and trust me, we’ll find you out in the technical interview….. a simple subnet question such as decimal equivalent of a slash22 network?.. yep you need to know subnets in microsoft as well as cisco…. if you can’t answer that, you’re not what we’re looking for..
Study to learn and better yourself, but make sure you BUILD those servers!
Liam-
I couldn’t have said it better myself! Your first two sentences are dead on and simple:
“It all seems quite simple to me. Qualifications + Experience = IT Pro.
IF little children have to sit exams every semester to prove their intelligence, then so should grown-ups!”
Thanks for the contributions.
Cheers!
Scott
Wow, talk about finding the site at the right time!!!
i am about to spend around R30 000 roughly $3 000 on doing the MCSE.
Here where im a bit concerned now.
The only formal training / cert i have IT related is an HNC in computing from UK.
I have worked my way up from techie to Network administrator over a period of 6 years and a few diff companies. I feel its time now to get the certs as im going to be moving to the UK at the end of the year and ive heard over there its not experience, its all about the certs!
My plan was pretty simple, 1 was going to do the MCSE and CCNA with maybe a linux cert thrown in for good measure.
I wouldn’t say that that i am close to being a pro on server2003 or routers, but i have a pretty good idea and manage to keep our network up and running pretty smoothly with around 140 users.
Im happy with the Admin side of servers and also the networking side. SO, what would you suggest my path be, carry on with intended plan, or should i move to perhaps CCNA and SCO/ Linux?
any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
After reading the above 13,648 words I think the conclusion is obvious. The entire IT field is BS. The finality seems to be nothing more than check equivelant to the amount of BS that you’ve put up with over the years. Can’t wait to finish my degree to have a BS in BS.
Hi Devlin-
You have great experience that will benefit you over the long term. I honestly think you would be disappointed paying $3000 and attending an instructor led course. These tend to be aimed at newbies and you might feel like you know it all. I would suggest that you self-study using courses like ours or MS Press books. You can pick up the theoretical side much easier that way and master hands-on concepts on your own network. I would do Microsoft/Cisco first, since this is what you have the most experience in.
Good Luck!
Scott
I think experience is king now-a-days…
No comments. Simply waste
Please help me.
I would like to start small web hosting in my home. I mean, I have three websites training in GODADDY.COM web hosting. Meanwhile each month I have to pay more money to them for my web hosting. That’ wise, I need to built self web hosting in my home with Microsoft products. So, please tell me anyone which course I want to study from Microsoft products. For example Windows Server 2008? Or any courser ?
Please help me..
best regards.
I originally did my MCSE under NT4, and upgraded to 2000 becuase of the implementation of Active Directory was radically different than NT 4. It was good, at the time, to upgrade to the “current” status, as many employers used to ask; “Is you MCSE current?”
However, I honestly feel that I am being played by Microsoft. Each time they upgrade their OS I am supposed to upgrade my MCSE? What a waste of time. I’m sick of my MCSE being “outdated”. Do our college degrees become “outdated”? Now, how clever, they’re going to just do away with the “MCSE” all together and call it something else, so when you put “MCSE” on your resume, the term itself will be outdated.
I feel betrayed by Microsoft and now with a strong grip in my IT career, I am looking to be a specialist in another area such as Cisco, Oracle or Unix. I have been an MS Admin for over 10 years and my friends in networking or Unix used to laugh and make fun of the “trained monkey” aspect of MS Administration and ask questions sarcastically like, “Did a service pack re-install and a reboot fix the problem?” I used to laugh back and say, “I make 40 an hour, same as you right?” but now I totally agree with them and I’m tired of being a trained monkey for failed services and patch updates. This hostile attitude might not have evolved if Microsoft was more loyal to the MCSEs that have supported their junk for the past 10 years.
Yeah,
That why 90% of Workstations are running Windows OSs.
1. Apple Cert –> http://training.apple.com/certification/macosx
2. SUN Cert –> http://www.sun.com/training/certification/solaris/index.xml
guess microsoft makes more money with certifications than selling windows OS….
or am i wrong?
.
2nd Posted..
Please help me.
I would like to start small web hosting in my home. I mean, I have three websites runing in GODADDY.COM web hosting. Meanwhile each month I have to pay more money to them for my web hosting. That’ wise, I need to built self web hosting in my home with Microsoft products. So, please tell me anyone which course I want to study from Microsoft products. For example Windows Server 2008? Or any courser ?
Please help me..
best regards.
OMG, I’m a newbie, just recently graduated from IT school, I’m already Comptia A+ and Network+ certified. I’m trying to pursue my MS certified due to find better job, better pay and better chance landing a position. I spent a lot of money on buying study guide books and spending a lot time of studying. After reading all these comments about MS certifies and about their new MCTS certifications make me wanna throw away all my books, and do not want to pursue MS certified anymore. Any advice from IT Pro experienced, please drop a few lines. Thanks.
jimmy -
I have 10 years in the profession and am just now certifying. I finished the MCSA early this year and I hope to finish the MCSE in April. The certifications do NOT mean that you can perform any network/IT function. However, your resume is typically placed in a different pile (the call for interview pile) than non-certified applicants. Before anyone goes hating what I am saying please know that I am not saying it is right. I am just saying that it typically is….. Experience can’t be replaced with quick study into a complex realm. It can get you in front of a hiring manager and your experience will get you (and more importantly help you keep) the job.
Keep studying and acquire some experience at any cost. If necessary, intern for free. Take an entry-level position with a consulting firm for the varied experience in complex skill-sets. The certifications will NEVER hurt you but experience is what will make you valuable.
Good luck and keep it fun!
I’ve been working on Microsoft kit for a goodly number of years now. I have an Microsoft certifications in NT4, 2000 and 2003.
Saying ditch microsoft certs in favour of CCNA is like comparing apples with oranges.
My current company doesn’t use cisco gear so a CCNA would not have got me an interview. Linux, unix or any other os cert would not have got me an interview. What got me the interview was my experience coupled with past and current certifications in the OS relevant to the position. If you are working in or looking to take a position in a Microsoft support role, Microsoft certification helps with interview selection…only if you have relevant experience to go with it.
The Vista exam I sat recently had 60+ questions, 20 of which were simulations. You can’t learn simulations from a text dump of possible exam questions. This is a step in the right direction in my opinion.
Not being certified in other OSs, I don’t know if there are simulations or practical assesment needed to obtain say a linux OS cert. Can anybody enlighten me?
what are the most current exams available for the windowws server 2003 track for this year and when would the xp [070-270] exam expires?
when will the xp exam [070-270] expires?
Exam 70-270 is not scheduled to retire any time soon. Here is the list of Microsoft exams scheduled for discontinuation:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcpexams/status/examstoretire.mspx
And here is a list of discontinued Microsoft Certification Exams:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcpexams/status/examsretired.mspx
as well as the discontinued Microsoft Certifications:
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/retired/cert/default.mspx
I think this particular XP exam is going to stick around for awhile just because so many companies are still using XP, and will be using it for some time to come.
I have MCSA 2003, MCITP, MCDST etc…. I agree with Scott and other folks that MCSE is still valuable. Not many companies are migrating to Server 2008 because of the costs involved. My company is still running on Server 2003 and later in the year we move to Server 2008. We will use both 2003 and 2008 tools. So yes, MCSE is still very vaulable. Remember XP is still in production and is a part of MCSE track. The whole deal about getting MCSE is not just getting the certificate and you file it away. It comes with the technical experience too:)
So folks, you will need take MCSE seriously just like Server 2008.
It’s time the experienced IT professionals take a stand against the pervasive revenue grab being attained by the manufacturers. I am opposed to the certifications because they’ve rendered those with experience only “useless”. I have found that with over 20 years in IT it’s virtually impossible to get in front of an employer without a certificate of some kind be it an A+, MCSE, CCNA, etc with all the alphabet soup available out there. Employment agencies are playing into the certificate game big time now too. There was a time when employment agencies could be relied upon to SELL you to clients based on their interview with you and their take on your tech skills but now non-IT folks are recruiting for IT spots and need a measure…so hence they too require certs. The other issue I have with certificates is that it’s a flavor of the month…Today MCSE and CCNA tomorrow who knows what…when that changes we’ll all have to get recertified in what ever that technology is…Red Hat? Look folks keeping these up is only playing into the hands of the vendors and it’s time we stop playing the game and fight back. While I value education when we begin to pander to vendors whims we are basically making our Degrees and other education/experience useless. I am finally caving in and going to take the necessary classes…getting certified.
Marty,
It seems you are a bit bitter. As a hiring manager, I look for skill, knowledge, character, and passion. A certification is a plus. To me an individual who has all of the above is a winner in my book. A certification shows me the person is passionate enough to keep their skills current and maintain a certain level of knowledge for a particular set of technologies. As many have stated before, an MCSE (or other cert) by itself means nothing more than being able to pass a test. I hope employers are not that stupid to put so much weight on a certification as you suggest.
My suggestion to you: compliment your 20+ years of experience with relevant certifications. What ever interests you. Maybe you’ll learn something new and stay competitive at the same time.
Best of luck.
I have taken MCP in april 2006 with three papers (70-270,70-290,70-291). What I have to do get MCSA and MCSE certification. Am I valid to get certified or not. If not then suggest me what I do? Please please send me a mail at my mail-id shailesh.mishra29@gmail.com.
Hi,
This is regarding a clarification on windows server 2008. whether can i able to understand the core of windows server 2008, since an naive to certification. Eventhough I have one year working experience, i didn much knowledge on windows. can i do directly windows server 2008 certification or any other supplements needed. Please help me out.
Regards,
Joe
I am opposed to the certifications because they’ve rendered those with experience only “useless”. I have found that with over 20 years in IT it’s virtually impossible to get in front of an employer without a certificate of some kind be it an A+, MCSE, CCNA, etc with all the alphabet soup available out there. Employment agencies are playing into the certificate game big time now too. There was a time when employment agencies could be relied upon to SELL you to clients based on their interview with you and their take on your tech skills but now non-IT folks are recruiting for IT spots and need a measure…so hence they too require certs. The other issue I have with certificates is that it’s a flavor of the month…Today MCSE and CCNA tomorrow who knows what…when that changes we’ll all have to get recertified in what ever that technology is…Red Hat? Look folks keeping these up is only playing into the hands of the vendors and it’s time we stop playing the game and fight back. While I value education when we begin to pander to vendors whims we are basically making our Degrees and other education/experience useless. I am finally caving in and going to take the necessary classes
I am an old MCSE – NT 3.51. Upgraded to 4.0 then never took another test because I was in a high level position for 12 years. Recently I began a new job search and you would have thought I had no experience (when talking with headhunters). I am a high-level guy and finally looked elsewhere for employment – other than through an employment agency – and had much better luck. Now I am recently hired into an organization, getting nice pay and without any current certs.
But I think I will do these 2008 certs just because I think there is value in learning. While I have all the hands-on in 2008 and Exchange, I think the certs do have value and that you show yourself you know it all.
The problem is the headhunters. I used them purely to brush up on my interview skills then went out on my own for real job interviews.
- just one man’s opinion…. – Stowy
(typing this while loading 2008 R2 and Exchange 2010 Beta on a VM ESX slice.. Oh yea!)
p.s
The TrainSignal courses rock. I use alot of them and recommend these to anybody. I have not found better training videos anyplace.
- Stowy in NC
i’m working on MCSA 2003, i’ll be writting the 70-620,70-284-70-290 and 70-291. i’m not too sure if i should the rest of the exams to be MCSE 2003 then upgrade to MCITP 2008 enterprise, or server administrator. is it also advissable for me to just persue a Degree thather then certification?
I have passed MCSE 2003 But now i want to need MCSE 2008.. How i can do that…? just only Microsoft 70-649 exam will be enough for up gradation for MCSE 2008.
Hi Md. Ataul,
You can find out more about the Server 2008 MCITP (no longer MCSE) certifications here: /mcitp-certifications
Hi,
This article really helped me in understanding Certification track of Windows server 2008. Many Thanks for this.
hi,
this artical realy help me understanding the certification,
thanks ,
farman rafiq
hi guys
i read ur comments. u guys are ryt somewhere but it depends on the situation.like there are backward counties which are currently using 5 to 10 years old stuff. I m 4rm Afghanistan and the servers are mostly used in the companies are server 2003. Thats y i think there is still some room for microsoft certifications…
Good luck
Just a general point here, I go a lot of IT training courses, and microsoft qualifications are always looked down upon, simply because they are brain-dumped, and everyone has them, even people who have never touch a computer in their life…
I’ll never forget an indian guy who did the ward round, selling tea and biscuits… he told me he was going on holiday for india for the week to see his family and do some busines, and to pick up his MCSE, few days later, he came back with the MCSE, he did it all in 1 day.
when i asked him which exams he took, he had no idea… and this defines the microsoft world of qualifications..
I’ll never sit a microsoft exam again thanks to people like this. the qualification is just a piece of paper, worth nothing, so go ahead and dump it.. i’ll do the same, just as everyone else now… we all cheat, microsoft makes more money from all of it..
And that’s the irony of it all.. now that people know it’s achievable, they will pay the microsoft price… gain that qualification, while microsoft increases it’s profits… afterall why should they care?? in the end, mostly idiots have the qualifications, the smart ones use their IT experience.
I just finished my MCSA 2003 today (started 10 months ago, and took my time to actually LEARN AND TRY everything that I could). I did it for myself (without brain dumps). I used Microsoft Press books and computer based training. I also have attained CompTIA A+, Network+, Security+. If you do not like to continue learning something new everyday, you shouldn’t be in IT….
interested in MCSE course and need guidance. Thanks.
Hi Dikshant,
Here is a link to our Windows Server 2003 training lineup that will help you prepare for you MCSE: http://www.trainsignal.com/Windows-Server-2003-Training-Courses.aspx
And here’s a link to some good info on the MCSE and other Microsoft certifications: http://www.trainsignal.com/Microsoft-Certification-101.aspx
Please let us know what questions you have and how we can help!